Someone Please Explain This

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Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Tani sent this out in a mass mail for all members who still have a character in Beasties.
Obviously there are a few things about this that concerns more than just a few people.

Hello, everyone who still has a character in Beasties.

I'm sending this message as a little warning. As you may know, Beasties is now derelict and well, I'm just here to make sure it still has a leader until the end for various rights stuff.
So, we have many members, having all of their toons or just some, join other SGs.

While it's sad to watch Beasties losing members, it's always a good thing to know you found a good friendly SG that fits your ideals.

However, be careful as not all SGs are friendly to Beasties and that's why this message exists. You may know Eternal Pack because you use the Eternal Beasties channel.
Recently, we have discovered that they kick former or still current Beasties from the channel, preventing them from chatting with their friends. Why, you may ask?

Here's the reason given by one of the leaders of EP, who is a former Beasties and was involved in a problem of leadership in beasties some months ago, herself:

"ShadowKat83: since the beasties has fallen with allmost all the officers gone, the beasties-EP alliance has fallen. The members no longer have 'rights' to the chat"
[...]
"ShadowKat83: in the alliance agreement, any member of the EP or Beasties had automatic rights to the EB chat... but since the beasties has died, those rights are no longer valid"
[...]
"ShadowKat83: they dont have auto acceptance"

And this was confirmed by another who is the admin of the Eternal Beasties channel:

"Kazmah: and this was decided by multiple officers, not just wind, but a group of us comming to this."


I think some of you must already ask "WTF is this stupid agreement?" and my answer is: "I didn't even know it existed". I guess it was decided before I became part of Beasties leadership.

But that's not the main problem, the main problem is that those who were kicked had a character in EP, so they had all right to stay in the channel. And they weren't even warned before being kicked!

And when I brought this to the moderators of EB, here was the first answers:
"Sauria_Lizard: BTW, do EP are allowed in the chat automatically?
awhail: almost automaticly
awhail: we wait to see what kind of person they are
awhail: if they are tolerable we allow them
awhail: i think only 1 or 2 were not allowed, but they didnt stay in SG"

And the second after I informed the kicked members had EP toons:
"ShadowKat83: tani... the EP and EB are not your concern in how they are ran"

And just after I mentioned which were their EP toons, at least one was kicked from EP. The answer when I mentioned this?
"ShadowKat83: tani, you are not even in the EP"

And when I asked if that "made my concerns invalid in a way?", here was the answer:
"ShadowKat83: ok... Im tired to playing nice... here is the scoop
ShadowKat83: Gundarr: and if tani feels so high and mighty for this, she can leave and start her own sg
ShadowKat83: Gundarr: those are all red flag characters that led to beasties crash and burn and if she doesnt feel like EP or EB are worth her time then she can get out and make something better
ShadowKat83: if you dont like how the EB and EP are being ran... there is nonthing holding you here"

Afterwards, any attempts to get an answer to why they were kicked from both the channel, then the SG, despite not causing any trouble at all and being in EP got no answer.

So, just wanted to warn you people to be very careful when you choose a SG, don't hesitate to ask your friends if it's worth it.

Some would say I shouldn't give names or that it could be fake or something else... But these are real logs, those who were kicked were my friends and I hate injustices going unpunished. So take it whatever you want, I just wanted to warn you.

Take care, everyfurry.


Tani

To avoid issues, Tani's account has been deleted.
However she is welcome to re-register again seeing as this is an open forum for members and friends of Eternal Pack, Beasties, and any of their allies. Please, let's end all drama like this and like everything else that has happened in the past.

Until then, some form of explanation would be appreciated.
Thanks.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nehmetawy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:05 am

I'm not certain I understand the punishment.

Why an account deletion and then an offer to re-register rather than temporary or permanent banning?

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Archeron on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:12 am

honestly this whole kicking thing seems out of character; if they didnt do anything wrong in chat then they should be allowed to stay in
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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:50 pm

Nehmetawy wrote:I'm not certain I understand the punishment.

Why an account deletion and then an offer to re-register rather than temporary or permanent banning?
It's not a punishment, I had removed her account on the forum before I read this because of some of the rumors that were spreading around. She only had about 3 posts anyway, and it's easy enough to re-register. Honestly I was just trying to prevent more problems from happening.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:51 pm

What kind of rumors caused me to get kicked?

And you're right, some form of explanation would be appreciated.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:54 pm

Shakyn Tani wrote:What kind of rumors caused me to get kicked?

And you're right, some form of explanation would be appreciated.
To put in a nutshell, that you were stirring up trouble. I didn't completely understand the issue so I apologize.

Still though, let's not stray away from the point of this thread.
If this is actually true, then there's definitely an issue.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:28 pm

Nuka wrote:
If this is actually true, then there's definitely an issue.
Wait, some officers and leaders weren't even aware of what happened?

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:39 pm

Shakyn Tani wrote:
Nuka wrote:
If this is actually true, then there's definitely an issue.
Wait, some officers and leaders weren't even aware of what happened?
No, not at all.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by DelGardo on Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:28 pm

One question Nuka can u remove the ban from my one account?
would please ya to do so

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Ferik on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:01 pm

Ok, I'm going to try and explain this really the best I can about the current kicks from EB chat, and alts in EP.
The most current issue was beasties lack of higher up leadership, and members. As for why those players were removed it was a group decisision, not 1 person.
This was not decided purely by myself, or Wind Song, or marshall, but a group of players who saw these individuals as high casses for drama starting and possible future grief.
With all the recently kicked members having rap sheets of past events, and current ones, We (mentioned numerous players besides myself) also felt with the recent downed state beasties was in, we would attempt to stunt the drama from starting up again. short term pain, long term gain.
But as this seems to have spawned into a new issue entirely based on the current reactions to the removals from chats i would like to explain.
These are redflag cases in drama and fire starting, or people who have connections to the ones who can, and have, caused serious damage. (with numerous chat logs, and witnesses as proof of the events. We are not without fair reason for these actions.)
And it was within the best interest in the long run to remove these problems before a future issues/drama could arise.

Look, I don't get some sort of glee for removing people from friends and or players, but past events have a nasty habbit of repeating themselves in time. And if it was possible i'd rather not see another event similar to the downfall of beasties due to leader and officer inactivity and drama/badblood.
No guild/clan/crew/Super group should ever have to go through power struggles and inhouse fighting. I'm no perfect person by any stretch of the term, i'm just some college kid who uses games like champions online for fun and to hang out with people. However this becomes increasingly difficult whenever i get on, and there's lingering drama and bad blood.
Also the recent attack by Tani by saying this was out of spite and hate to "remove competition" or "Kick them while their down" and "Beasties are no longer allowed 'cause you're gonna get kicked from their ego tripping leaders" is totally false. With Beasties falling out of leadership, Eternal Beasties will now be under a management role by Eternal Pack.
This chat was supposed to be freeform for multiple groups to join and be able to talk. But within the last few months i've seen it been used as a podium to launch hate attacks and to fuel fires. From here on out, EP is managment and moderation of the EB chat, with officers and moderators put in place from various other SG's to help.
Simply being within EP doesn't grant the members to EB chat, same goes for the remaining beasties members/ ex-members. And furthermore, players who have been removed from the chat or from my SG -Eternal pack- may be reinvited in the future if the players wish it, and if it is voted on within the limits of re-excepting them by their piers.
(IE, If the member was removed from EP it will be decided by EP members, same for people who were removed from EB chat, the EB chat will vote on their return as a whole.)

I hope this helps in somewhat explaining some of this confusion, and if anyone needs me ingame to answer further questions my game tag is Ferik@Kazmah
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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:33 am

OK, you can blame me for continuing drama (notice the CONTINUING, not STARTING), Luci, maybe because she was involved in getting Tsyro out of Beasties (even if it was justified since he was warned of some rules and completely ignored them while being biased towards the leaders at that moment), but Solides? Why, what did she do? And even for Luci, just why? We kept the drama behind-the-scene, except for when we kicked Tsyro so people get explanation.

No guild/clan/crew/Super group should ever have to go through power struggles and inhouse fighting.
This was going OK, until someone started a "Beasties Rebirth". Everyone knew Al and Arc were having troubles IRL so they informed the officers to act more like leaders until things got sorted out on their side.

or people who have connections to the ones who can, and have, caused serious damage.
You can ban pretty much every former Beastie then, I guess. I know Nehm, ban her, I know crosknight, ban him, I know Zhagtin, ban him, heck, I even know Tsyro, ban him, too.

You do realize that if you didn't kick these people like this or at least provide an explanation and warning before it happened, you would have avoided this drama?

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by DelGardo on Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:25 am

Tani those stuff has hurt many people, the fight between luci and me, how beasties falls down and how people left Beasties.
But to bring it up again isnt fair and beasties wasnt goin to be ok without the rebirth someone did it with a reason.
Me and luci well we talk now and try to forget the past.

But tani i please let it be.
Now your causing again drama as you see luci or solides can rejoin if they want and if they agree. Just for now its to avoid drama which u causin now.
We all got enough of this drama so please dont start new drama.
It was more then just one decision, accept it or leave us with this drama please...

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:43 am

Now your causing again drama as you see luci or solides can rejoin if they want and if they agree.
Yes, so easy to kick someone out as if they were filth, just in case they may cause troubles again (and once again, if someone could tell me what was their crime before, it'd be nice), expecting their friends to turn a blind eye, then not even apologizing and telling them they can rejoin in person. Really classy.

We all got enough of this drama so please dont start new drama.
Once again, who restarted it? It was going very well until these kicks.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:59 pm

Tani, drama started before you even took over leadership in Beasties. Even the process of you getting leadership was drama, since you were a new member who knew no one in the group and Alvina wanted to immediately put you at the top. There was a lot of controversy for that since absolutely everyone else in the group agreed that you should work your way up the ranks like everyone else.

Point being, Beasties has always been a drama filled group even with the #1 rule being no drama. I'm not trying to shoot you down, but I can see why EP has their concerns. Problem people do need to be kicked, becuase in all honesty they only come back to cause more issues. Hell, I even know a few people who went to the length of making a whole new account just to rejoin and cause more issues.

Most of these "problem people" have already had their second chances. Most of them more than that. So while I understand just kicking people may not be the greatest solution, it is probably the best in a situation like this. However that doesn't mean they can't get a serious talking to and then making them agree to not do certain things again, to get them allowed back.


Just my two cents.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:05 pm

Nuka wrote:Problem people do need to be kicked, becuase in all honesty they only come back to cause more issues.

Most of these "problem people" have already had their second chances. Most of them more than that.
OK, once again:

"WHAT. WAS. SOLIDES'. CRIME.?"

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Nuka on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:52 am

Shakyn Tani wrote:
Nuka wrote:Problem people do need to be kicked, becuase in all honesty they only come back to cause more issues.

Most of these "problem people" have already had their second chances. Most of them more than that.
OK, once again:

"WHAT. WAS. SOLIDES'. CRIME.?"
I have no idea.
But knowing all the drama I had to deal with on a regular basis in the past, I don't doubt any accusations. If I were you, I'd calm down before you make yourself look worse.

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Re: Someone Please Explain This

Post by Shakyn Tani on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:39 pm

Oh, I'm calm, just very curious.

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